Margherita Devalle knows more about Milan than Google Maps and AI combined. In this interview, we try to get even more tips and tricks from the insider. to tease them out. And find out, among other things, where their penchant for hidden treasures away from the tourist magnets and where where she is drawn to if she ever gets fed up with Milan.
FACES: You discover the most unique and unknown places. Do you sometimes hesitate to share them with the world because you’d rather keep them to yourself?
Margherita Devalle: Sometimes I hear this little evil voice whispering to me: “Shh, keep it to yourself”. Some places feel like personal confessions of the city: quiet, rare, precious. But I believe the magic is not in keeping them secret, but in inviting people to earn the places. It depends on how you tell the secret. And how people will make use of it.
F: How long did it take you to choose the 30 best unique locations for “Soul of Milan”?
MD: Fifteen years and a broken heart. That’s how long I’ve lived in Milan and it really took that time to narrow the city down to just 30 places. It was like having to choose your favorite memories. I have a chaotic and scribbled system of notes, memos, maps and doodles, but it works.
F: So then there was no structured system to find the hotspots?
MD: No, it was just my obsession, the suggestions of cab drivers and old friends that prompted me to create a Google map with all the places I had found. Curiosity showed me the way. Milan doesn’t shout, it hides. You have to flirt with the city a little before it lets you in.
F: Which of the 30 places is your absolute favorite and why?
MD: Oh no, that’s like asking a child whether they like mom or dad better. I would say Alfio’s experience. You can have lunch or dinner in a real Milanese apartment with nine other people you didn’t know before, enjoy fantastic Italian food prepared by the owner of the apartment, Alfredo, talk to new friends and discover really good music. What more do you need?
“If it’s on TikTok, avoid it.”
F: Imagine you are talking to someone who always falls into tourist traps. What five tips would you give this person to help them explore a city away from the tourist attractions?
MD: First, if it’s on TikTok, avoid it. Of course not if you find it on my account. Secondly, walk. Then walk another 15 minutes and get lost on purpose. Third: Ask the grandma and the grumpiest old man in a bar what they recommend. Ask cab drivers who know the city better than anyone else. The best information comes from real people, not Google or Trip Advisor. Fourthly, ignore anything with a queue and a neon sign – except Il Brutto Anatroccolo and Frizzi e Lazzi. And fifthly: look up, go
through the gates and look around the courtyards. The best discoveries are not always at eye level.
F: Have you ever fallen into a tourist trap yourself, despite your insider expertise? What did you learn from it?
MD: Yes, and it was about a “famous” café in Budapest, cold coffee and 200 cell phones in the air. What did I learn? If something is over-photographed, it’s probably disappointing.
F: Is there a city or destination you’ve never visited that you’d like to explore to discover the best insider tips?
MD: Nepal, without a doubt. I have the feeling that this country holds more stories than you could discover in a lifetime.
“If something is over-photographed, it’s probably disappointing.”
F: What is your personal travel style: city or beach, relaxing or exploring all day? Or something in between?
MD: I am a full-time hiker. I need cities, landscapes, stories. But give me a remote beach or mountain with no phone or wifi for a week and I will be wholeheartedly grateful.
F: Someone only has a single day in Milan. What does the perfect daily schedule look like?
MD: In the morning: Breakfast at a local café such as Gatullo, Pasticceria Cucchi or brunch at B Good Cafè is ideal and also the perfect way to explore the city. Then head straight to a secret archive such as Kasa dei Libri or the impressive Biblioteca Nazionale Braidense. A stroll through an inner courtyard – a Milanese specialty – or a visit to a vintage store in Ticinese is next on the agenda. Sous Vintage and Groupies are two of my favorites. Lunch: Cotoletta alla milanese, where the menu is handwritten. Trattoria Masuelli for the best, Brutto Anatroccolo for a truly local and affordable experience. Afternoon: artist-run spaces such as the Casa Museo Bagatti Valsecchi and the Fondazione Luigi Rovati. Evening and night in Chinatown for a fun time with authentic street food and karaoke – addresses in my travel guide.
F: And what is hyped in Milan but allowed to be left out because it’s overrated?
MD: Navigli on a Saturday evening. Too touristy. It’s an Instagram postcard, not a place. The soul of Milan would rather be discovered than sold.
F: When did you discover your passion for traveling and discovering unique places?
MD: As a child, I traveled with my parents through Brazil, Thailand and Africa and then had an unforgettable experience in Mexican Indian villages where I lived at the age of 22. This instinct has never left me. I owe this to my parents, who taught me to explore the world and other cultures from an early age – my first international flight was when I was just four months old.
And above all, they taught me to love life.
F: How will cities change in the future as a result of over-tourism?
MD: They will defend themselves. Perhaps one day, cities with souls will no longer be found on maps. They will hide behind codes, silent rituals and closed circles. Not out of arrogance, but to escape the noise. And perhaps we will learn to take a closer look.
“We are entering a post-hype era where people want depth instead of drama.”
F: And how do you think traveling itself will change in the future? Do you think people will follow the path of “Soul of Milan” and actually try to seek out the special places rather than the usual ones?
MD: I hope so. We are entering a post-hype era where people want depth instead of drama. Travel guides like “Soul of Milan” are not just lists, but invitations to slow down and take a closer look.
F: You already had to describe Milan in just 30 places – let’s make it even harder: how would you describe the city in just one sentence?
MD: Milan never begs for love, and her mood depends entirely on how she slept the night before. But if you catch her on a good day, she’ll take your heart by storm without even trying.
F: That was two sentences, but we’ll let it slide. And if Milan were an object or souvenir, what would it be?
MD: An old streetcar. Worn out but still in running order, it transports stories through the hidden corners of the city. It is a little old-fashioned, unpredictable and always lively.
F: In the introduction, you describe Milan as a place that you have to discover over time. How long did it take you to feel like you really knew the city?
MD: Ten years, maybe even longer. Milan is like someone who never texts first, but once he does, he never stops. Sometimes he ghosted you, but who doesn’t do that from time to time?
F: Do you remember your first visit to Milan? What was your first impression of the city?
MD: I like to say that Milan is like a mother who welcomes you with open arms and endless possibilities, but then weans you off and lets you go your own way. When I first came here, I was 19 and felt simultaneously welcomed and thrown in at the deep end. I didn’t even know if I would be accepted to university, but somehow Milan just took me in. Now I’m out and about every morning doing what I have to do, just like everyone else in this city.
F: What was the first special place you discovered in Milan that made you think, “I need to make a list of unique and unusual hotspots!”?
MD: A private library in a house. You’ll find it in my guidebook. You ring the doorbell and the story opens the door. This place lit the spark.
“Follow the tips of cab drivers, older people or locals.”
F: Are there any hotspots that you’ve kept to yourself? Or that you might be saving for a second book?
MD: Yes, a few gems are safely tucked away in my secret vault, maybe for volume two, or maybe they’ll just stay in my Google Maps forever, waiting for the right moment to be discovered.
F: If you could do the same thing you did for “Soul of Milan” for any other place, which city would you choose and why?
MD: Mexico City. It is wild, poetic, chaotic and full of secrets. It’s like Milan, but huge, always crazy and in technicolor. I lived there when I was 22 and have never forgotten the atmosphere. Definitely my favorite city in the world.
F: What is most important to you when exploring a city: food, shopping, culture or nightlife?
MD: Culture and food as culture. I’m not interested in luxury, I’m interested in stories.
F: What are your insider tips for finding the best restaurants and bars? Should we trust TripAdvisor, Google reviews etc.?
MD: Absolutely not. Follow the tips of cab drivers, older people or locals. Even a tattoo artist or a fisherman could help you find a fantastic gem. Because they know what they’re talking about.
F: Where do you get your inspiration from when you’re preparing for an upcoming trip?
MD: From weird blogs, from local creatives, from underground travel guides like my editor Jonglez – that’s how I got to know it – but mostly I just intuitively walk and talk to strangers on the ground.
F: Do you discover new places more by chance, just wandering around, or are you someone who has a very detailed itinerary?
MD: I make a few plans, but I mainly travel on a whim. The best things happen when you lose yourself.
F: Let’s assume that someone really has had enough of Milan. What would be the nearest excursion destination you would recommend?
MD: Chiaravalle Abbey. After 20 minutes you are in another century. Pure silence, total relaxation and a really good trattoria where you can enjoy Milanese cuisine, the Trattoria al Laghetto.
Here are some of the best tips from “Soul of Milan”.
SOUL OF MILAN
Eating dinner with strangers in a strange old apartment, going full throttle on an old racing bike track or filling your stomach with authentic street food: Milan offers a lot more than the usual tourist traps. Margherita Devalle has tracked down the 30 best secret hotspots and created a travel guide with a difference. The recipe for a unique stay in Milan? Forget the hyped TikTok videos, avoid the crowds and pick up a good old book. Margherita Devalle, “Soul of Milan”, Jonglez Verlag, approx. 15. -,
jonglezpublishing.com
MARGHERITA DEVALLE
No well-kept secret can hide from her: TikTok and TripAdvisor don’t stand a chance against presenter, podcast host and travel professional Margherita Devalle. She has compiled the best hotspots in her adopted home of Milan for “Soul of Milan”.
@margherita_devalle
OTTAVIO FANTIN
A cell phone photo is often enough to fuel the desire to travel. Or, in today’s world, a TikTok video. Photographer Ottavio Fantin likes the classic way and has already traveled to over 50 countries with his camera. He prefers to capture pulsating metropolises and empty corners in analog format. He was clearly the right person to visually capture the best corners of his home country for “Soul of Milan”.
@ottaviofantin
Jonglez Verlag has captured the “soul” of a whole series of cities. You can find the whole series here.
Photos: © Ottavio Fantin
